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THE WELFARE OF PIKE
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LAKELAND DAVE
Junior Fisherman
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Location: KILLARNEY CO.KERRY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: THE WELFARE OF PIKE Reply with quote

AS A NEWCOMER TO IRELAND FROM THE UK I MUST SAY I WAS APPALLED BY THE ATTITUDE OF A CERTAIN TACKLE SHOP OWNER IN KILLARNEY..WHEN I ASKED HIM IF ANY PIKE OR OTHER COURSE SPECIES WERE IN KILLARNEY LAKES HE REPLIED THAT THERE WERE NONE AND ANYWAY ALL PIKE AND OTHER COARSE SPECIES WERE SEEN AS VERMIN AND THEY WERE "CHUCKED" ON THE BANK!!NEEDLESS TO SAY, I LEFT THE SHOP (SINCE CLOSED DOWN) AND NEVER RETURNED.HIS WHOLE ATTITUDE WAS THAT NO OTHER SPECIES MATTERED OTHER THAT SALMON AND TROUT.HE OBVIOUSLY WAS UNAWARE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE PRESENCE OF PIKE IN ANY WATER THE SIZE OF THE LAKES.PEOPLE WITH THIS SORT OF ATTITUDE DONT DESERVE TO BE CALLED SPORTSMEN.SORRY TO RANT ON BUT IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL.
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TheGreatJC
Junior Fisherman
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Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heard there's a fair few non-salmonids in the killarney lakes...
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LAKELAND DAVE
Junior Fisherman
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Location: KILLARNEY CO.KERRY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES...THATS WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM A FEW PEOPLE AS WELL.ITS A GREAT SHAME THAT THIS NARROW MINDEDNESS EXISTS.IT IS SUCH A SHAME TO THINK THAT PIKE "ACCIDENTLY" CAUGHT BY THESE PEOPLE ARE THROWN ONTO THE BANK TO PERISH LIKE THAT.
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jkchambers
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 2776
Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am afraid that there are few pike or coarse anglers in the Kerry area. To find pike anglers you have to go to Clare, Limerick or Cork.
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LAKELAND DAVE
Junior Fisherman
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Location: KILLARNEY CO.KERRY

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANKS FOR THE INFO....SEEMS I SETTLED IN THE WRONG AREA FOR COARSE ANGLING BUT I AM WILLING TO TRAVEL FOR ODD WEEKENDS SO ITS NOT A MAJOR PROBLEM,AND WHO KNOWS PERHAPS I CAN CONVINCE THE WIFE TO MOVE !!
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Brian Donnelly
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Keady

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave;
Convince the wife,are you mad? Just go on your own mate,she'll only get bored after an hour and want to go home again Wink
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john s
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject: skip fullll of pike!! Reply with quote

i am a angler who was brain washed when i was younger that pike were vermin.when i look back i am ashamed of myself!now i fish for pike on corrib an put back everything.
but i work in a smoked salmon factory and once a week the skip out the back is full to the top with pike.mostly still gasping for breath!!
its shocking.
its the w.r.f.b that use our skip.i suppose its electro or gill nets??
ave pike maybe 6 to 9 lbs!!
its not a pretty sight i can tell you all. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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jkchambers
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is happening to the pike ? Are they being smoked ?
Is this happening at the moment ? If so , is there any particular day that they arrive ? Wouldnt mind getting some snaps.
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john s
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they are not being smoked!!!we use the skip for old fish heads and guts etc!!
then a bio truck comes once a week to dispose of them.burn maybe an use as fertiliser????
hate to see it
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J1
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Joined: 18 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where exactly is this factory ? and as JKC asked what day of the week dose this happen?

You don't have to post it up here, You can P.M. me with info.

Or you can also P.M. JKChambers.
Joe
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Brian Donnelly
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Joined: 17 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: skip fullll of pike!! Reply with quote

[quote="john s"]
but i work in a smoked salmon factory and once a week the skip out the back is full to the top with pike.mostly still gasping for breath!!
its shocking.

quote]

How long has this been goin' on?
And why has it not been reported 'til now?
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D Hamill
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joemccudden wrote:
Where exactly is this factory ? and as JKC asked what day of the week dose this happen?

You don't have to post it up here, You can P.M. me with info.

Or you can also P.M. JKChambers.
Joe


Joe,

This is not new. The late David Overy when Chairman of the Irish Pike Society raised the dumping of bream, roach and pike into skips in an Irish angling magazine. These fish were netted by the wrfb in Lough Corrib. That was May 2006.

It would be interesting to include this issue for discussion at the next IFPAC executive committee meeting. I have no doubt John will do this. The meeting was to be held tomorrow, but by chance I am informed it has been rescheduled for next Wednesday. It would be interesting to get your own views on this issue at the meeting as an observer if you wish. We didnít sit on the committee together when you were involved but I have no doubt you would be enlightened by the broad range of issues discussed.

David
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john s
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: skip Reply with quote

its going on for years and years..its not really that regular.like it could be a monday and then the following thursday for example..
and roach and bream as you said.
could be 100 kilo of pike!!i dont really like saying much bout where cause its not our fault they dump in our skip...i mean..there the fisherie board.there the god dam law.
im really p d off.
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Mickey McKenna
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Joined: 18 May 2007
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Location: Keady, Co. Armagh

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my good God. Something has to be done about this. I hope that the IFPAC get the snaps and go public on this. This is an outrage, words fail me

Mickey
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john s
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just a quick message as i am working..i am prepared to take pictures an send them on the next time it happenes...maybe even today..ill be online later ok
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Mickey McKenna
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Location: Keady, Co. Armagh

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair play to you John, need a few more people like you about.

Mickey
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J1
Old Hat Fisherman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JKC if your are keeping up with the posts on this thread,which I am sure you are this man has got to get all the backing the IFPAC can give him if and when he gets photos, As MmcK says this is a outrage and has got to be highlighted and stop as soon as possible.

Will answer D. Hs. post later

Joe
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jkchambers
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping more than one eye on it. With roach and bream also being dumped I will be on to the NCFFI about it too.
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J1
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D Hamill wrote:
joemccudden wrote:
Where exactly is this factory ? and as JKC asked what day of the week dose this happen?

You don't have to post it up here, You can P.M. me with info.

Or you can also P.M. JKChambers.
Joe


Joe,

This is not new. The late David Overy when Chairman of the Irish Pike Society raised the dumping of bream, roach and pike into skips in an Irish angling magazine. These fish were netted by the wrfb in Lough Corrib. That was May 2006.

It would be interesting to include this issue for discussion at the next IFPAC executive committee meeting. I have no doubt John will do this. The meeting was to be held tomorrow, but by chance I am informed it has been rescheduled for next Wednesday. It would be interesting to get your own views on this issue at the meeting as an observer if you wish. We didnít sit on the committee together when you were involved but I have no doubt you would be enlightened by the broad range of issues discussed.

David


Hi David,

If the late Dave Overy raised this in a Irish Angling magazine in 2006 what I cant understand is why is it only coming to a head now I have to ask you the question was it ever discuss at a IFPAC meeting ? as you were on the committee back then I would assume that you would have made it your top priority for discussion at a meeting.
Do some committee members not have good contacts over in the west to keep them informed of the goings on.

As regards to me attending a meeting as a observer I don't think so.
I step down from the post of V/Chair at the A.G.M. of 98 and I don't intend going back (just yet) one of my reasons was the so called broad range of issues that were discussed .

I would like to see more time spent on Pike welfare and conservation than on other issues (I.E. the blue barrel) that has no place in any competition for the retention of pike ( boat or shore ), and the so called holding cages well my views are well known on them.

Joe
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D Hamill
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Joe,

Thanks for getting back to me. I would say first off that you would get more information in a committee meeting than on an open forum

I can assure you that in the past few years the conservation side of the committee has been very active, regrettably not always getting the results wished for but not without some success either and personally I like any conscientious pike angler would be, am proud to be a part of that.

On your point of the blue barrel, I too am turning to the idea that it has no place in boat competitions. Personally I tried to find sensible common ground on this issue that would suit all, and that with the right publicity might get a positive message out to the general angling public regarding pike retention. That common ground was the new boat policy on the front page of this site. I remember clearly last year when speaking to other IFPAC members that there was an opinion that this issue would split IFPAC in two, between conservation and competitions. It has now become clear that the competition side of IFPAC won out and important opportunities in 2008 to pursue a new way forward were lost. All this will not change the fact that mortalities do take place in boat competitions and have done so during competitions held by our own affiliated clubs. Things have progressed steadily since the worst was seen, but not quick enough and not with the right conclusion in sight, at present.

Regarding the issue in hand that being the dumping of pike in skips (or burying in dumps or dumping at pet food factories) this is part of the bigger picture of the CFB science backed pike culling philosophy, and the same issue you likely dealt with when you were on the committee, regarding the Western Lakes. I can assure you that in late 2006 through 2007 and into 2008 IFPAC carried out a very detailed investigation through the CFB and Regional Boards of the goings on regarding pike removal under the guise of science. There were a number of very disconcerting findings and a lot of unavailable information. IFPAC reported some of the findings to the Department and directly to the Boards. This entire process culminated in a 3 hour meeting between IFPAC, Directors and Scientific staff of the CFB and the CEOís of the Western and North Western RFBís in April this year as reported in the Irish Anglers Digest. Eamon Cusack CEO Shrfb pulled out at the last minute due to other engagements. With all respect to the fisheries service staff that met us, there appeared to be presupposed notion leading up the meeting that IFPAC would be buried in science once and for all and that our investigation into the science behind pike culling would cease. The reality is that this was not the case. IFPAC strongly argued against the scientific findings and although Dr. Martin Oí Grady CFB put forward a detailed overview of his findings to date, IFPAC was left with more questions than answers regarding the validity of some of these. IFPAC has awaited with patience the answers to a number of points raised at the meeting.

IFPAC also proposed that the large limestone Loughs undergo a pilot project (similar to that in the 2003 pike policy review) in tandem with the Water Framework Directive stock analysis. It was proposed that this project should be coupled with a risk analysis of all the factors impacting on the quality of Wild Brown Trout angling on these Loughs. Our view was based on our stated belief that the CFB philosophy was too focused on the issue of pike without analysing each and every component impacting on a waterway from pollution to habitat destruction to over fishing etc. IFPAC was promised that the National Fisheries Managers Executive would consider such a project and respond directly. We currently again patiently await the response. The reality of the current situation regarding pike culling is that since the 1950ís exchequer and/or EU funding has been spent on a highly questionable activity. Surely now even the most ardent game angler would like to know what the nuts and bolts behind the sustainability of Wild Brown Trout fishing is, without this over emphasis been placed on pike.

The work is still ongoing here Joe and every piece of useful information received by IFPAC helps. Regarding IFPAC I have no idea of your own circumstances for leaving, indeed every angler will have his own view on it, how it conducts its business and the speed at which it works. I can say a couple of things here. I believe that like most, if not all voluntary organisations, IFPAC suffers from a lack of members willing to take on active committee roles within the 14 committee posts. In my opinion this has hampered progress regarding conservation issues because progress means doing more than just chatting at a meeting. It is not that IFPAC does not have capable and competent members, it does, but for some reason they are not prepared to try and make the difference where it counts. Maybe they commit their time to local issues, if so, fair enough. I have to admit though to being impressed with the PAC. Each three years a new committee with renewed enthusiasm for speaking out for pike angling comes to the fore. Every organisation or cause needs new blood and people not afraid of doing some work. IFPAC is no different. Indeed I am delighted to hear that another pike angling organisation may be in the process of reforming. The more voices speaking out for Irish pike angling the better in my opinion. If I am honest though, I would have to say I would prefer to see IFPAC conservationists getting onto the IFPAC committee at our agmís and making a difference there, but, everyone has to make their own choice.

I hope this in some way answers some of your questions.

David
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